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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:51 pm 
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The other thread was full of helpful advice, but my head began to swim so I'm starting again here. Let me know if I've got anything incorrect?

A. Recovery partition

These were introduced from Lion, when OS X became download-only. It contains - I believe - a set of utilities and a way to redownload the OS. If I already have Mavericks installer on a USB drive (which I do) then I shouldn't need a RP. If I really did think I needed one, TechTool Pro 9 will create an eDrive, which is a stripped down version of the Mac OS in its own partition plus TechTool Pro, to all intents and purposes a RP.

B. After playing with the "new" computer for a day or two to see everything works, I will perform the following sequence of tasks.
    1. link the two Macs via TDM, and erase the two disks on the new Mac
    2. partition the HDD with 50GB to take a future install of Sierra
    3. use the remainder of the HDD + the SSD to create a fusion drive (will need help for this!)
    4. install Mavericks clean on the fusion drive
    5. EITHER:
    ....Migrate data via Time Machine (doesn't matter if very lengthy as I can still use this Mac meantime)
    ....OR:
    ....Migrate data via TDM - but that seems less 'expert' than trusting Apple's own software

Can you now at long last say "By George, he's got it!" ?

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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:37 pm 
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" By George !! "

.. :D . :D . :D


As you say, you probably don't really need a Recovery partition, it's only on rare occasions that you might need it and you do have alternative methods. Such as using a second computer to connect to it in TDM, and your installer. I think you could still add it later to your HD but there would be no room on the SSD once it's all tied up with core storage. When you install Sierra, it will probably reserve an area on the HD to add a Sierra RP. If you installed Sierra before doing the fusion drive I'm sure it will be guaranteed to add a RP to the HD.

If you have never actually booted into a Recovery partition you might like to do that on your existing Mavericks installation. Hold down the R key on start-up chime until you see the grey Apple symbol.

There are few functions there which can be useful if things are going pear shaped. Normally you wouldn't need them.

_________________
......................1952
...............Effie Madge Mabel Biddie
...................See them on the beach
......................Or in New York City

.............Tina Louise & Hazel & Mavis
Can you name, name, name, name them all today
Can you name, name, name, name them all today

......................


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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:32 pm 
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Leewave wrote:
If you have never actually booted into a Recovery partition you might like to do that on your existing Mavericks installation. Hold down the R key on start-up chime until you see the grey Apple symbol.

There are few functions there which can be useful if things are going pear shaped. Normally you wouldn't need them.

True, but I think a TechTools Pro eDrive would offer even more, so that's the route I'd probably go down. And I don't need to connect 2 computers in TDM - I'd just pop the Mavericks installer memory stick into a USB port on the failing computer, then hold Option down when I restart, and it should show up.

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 Post Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:35 am 
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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . Image. . . . >> Download Fusion icon




Video: Apple Keynote - Fusion Drive



When it comes to the Terminal commands to install a Fusion drive, this is the procedure you need to follow.

Video: DIY Fusion Drive - Terminal commands

There are just two main commands in sequence. The first one creates a logical volume group of "core storage", the second creates a HFS+ volume on it. It's very quick to do.


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ To unmake a Fusion drive :oops: _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Don't worry if you mess it up first attempt, you can just do it again, but you would first need to unmake your Fusion drive with two other commands:

First diskutil cs list to find out and copy the 'Core Storage Logical Volume Group' UUID for your device - then

diskutil cs delete 677E1EA1-6DDD-40E1-9FA5-94AE12FC5CBB to delete it and restore the two drives back to separate individual blank HFS+ partitions.

I mention it just for information, you won't actually need to do this unless you have a problem, but you should know how to unmake a Fusion drive as well as make one.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _



Building the Fusion drive

What you will do is pretty much the way he outlined there, except he was using the whole of disk0 and the whole of disk1. In your case you will want to select just the partition that you are going to use from the HD, (which will be the largest partition remaining, about 949GB if you have used 50 GB for the Sierra partition), plus the whole of the SSD.

:!: Check what they actually are by running the diskutil list command first.

The identifier for the HD you need will be something like disk0s2 - not the complete disk. The identifier for the SSD would likely be disk1.


So the commands you need will look something like this:

1) diskutil list - You can use this at any time to see where you are up to and what the partition identifiers are.

Note the disk identifier for the partition you need on the hard drive - it may be disk0s2, and the disk identifier for the SSD which will probably be disk1

2) diskutil cs create Fusion disk0s2 disk1 (for example - see your info) - I called my logical volume group "Fusion" but you can choose "bloggs" if you wish. :)

This tells Apple's corestorage software to create a combined logical volume group named "Fusion" from the two disks you have identified. After a few seconds the Terminal will show the resulting combined logical volume identifier. Copy it to the paste buffer, you will need it next.

If you need to you could run this command to see what it is: diskutil cs list, but it has already been listed by the previous command.

Copy the 'Logical Volume Group' identifier data - e.g. 677E1EA1-6DDD-40E1-9FA5-94AE12FC5CBB

The second terminal command to build a Fusion drive involves defining the Logical Volume Group, the type of storage unit created, the name you wish it to show as (it could be "Macintosh HD" if you were uninventive), and the size of storage unit. Choose 100%.

So the next command will look similar to this: -

3) diskutil coreStorage createVolume 677E1EA1-6DDD-40E1-9FA5-94AE12FC5CBB jhfs+ "Name desired" 100%

Note the capital S and the capital V in the previous line. This creates a journalled HFS+ volume called "Name desired".

Put the chosen name of the disk in quotes if it includes spaces, otherwise quotes are not required. You can always rename it later from Finder anyway, it's no big deal what you call it.

The last command just exits the Terminal sequence - for neatness' sake.

4) exit

Close Terminal, it's not required any further.



:!: PS: If you would prefer to run Sierra from the SSD, just change the commands appropriately before you partition and commit to making the Fusion drive. It would be a lot of faff to change your mind afterwards.

If you want to add a TechTools Pro e drive, this is another decision to make early on. I suggest the HD for that.
These choices are made right at the beginning.

_________________
......................1952
...............Effie Madge Mabel Biddie
...................See them on the beach
......................Or in New York City

.............Tina Louise & Hazel & Mavis
Can you name, name, name, name them all today
Can you name, name, name, name them all today

......................


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 Post Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:32 am 
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Leewave wrote:
If you want to add a TechTools Pro e drive, this is another decision to make early on. I suggest the HD for that.
These choices are made right at the beginning.

Are we assuming that the eDrive cannot be added to the fusion drive? If that's true (though the TTP manual doesn't explicitly say so) then I'd add it TO the remaining HDD partition FROM my current Mac, as TTP will create an eDrive anywhere you specify, and the eDrive is an invisible partition like RPs. (For that reason I couldn't create a special partition for it, as it would be visible and hence not bootable? Guessing...) Then I'd make the fusion drive.

Leewave wrote:
PS: If you would prefer to run Sierra from the SSD, just change the commands appropriately before you partition and commit to making the Fusion drive. It would be a lot of faff to change your mind afterwards.

I don't think there would be enough room after installing Mavericks and all my many Applications there - and presumably, Apple will try and put all its temporary system files, logs, etc there too? Anyway, you surely can't have two different OS installed on a single fusion drive??? No, it's Mavericks I want, Sierra is just an after thought, which I'll use for downloading each new OS then store on an external HD so Apple at least know I've previously "purchased" it.

Anyway - thanks for the instructions! :tu:

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 Post Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:31 am 
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The fusion drive will be considered as a separate item aside from the rest of the stuff. It's different. You can't fiddle with the foundations of a fusion drive okay? I am not assuming anything. I've explained that you can't repartition a fusion drive! Therefore add any partitions you want to the disk before you make the fusion drive!

I tried to explain it. I know nothing about e-drives. I don't know what it is. Surely you can add it to an ordinary hard drive can't you? But if you split up your disk before you make a fusion drive and then you make a fusion drive with what's left...

OMG. You can have as many different systems as you like on your disk. One of them will be on a fusion drive - in fact you could make 10 fusion drives by splitting your disks into 10 parts each and combining each to make 10 different ones! You can have many systems as you like on your computer.

Or split into 100 ordinary partitions! I don't know, I'm just trying to explain it.

Any more questions put them on a postcard send to my home address.

I will answer any more questions you have later. This afternoon I'm going to go out to work.

Good luck! I hope your computer arrives soon and you can get your head around this stuff. It isn't really so difficult. You're welcome! :tu: :shock: ;)

_________________
......................1952
...............Effie Madge Mabel Biddie
...................See them on the beach
......................Or in New York City

.............Tina Louise & Hazel & Mavis
Can you name, name, name, name them all today
Can you name, name, name, name them all today

......................


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 Post Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:44 am 
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Leewave wrote:
OMG. You can have as many different systems as you like on your disk. One of them will be on a fusion drive - in fact you could make 10 fusion drives by splitting your disks into 10 parts each and combining each to make 10 different ones! You can have many systems as you like on your computer.

Yes, I knew that already! But you were suggesting I add Sierra to the SSD (or fusion) as well as Mavericks...

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"If it ain't broke, we can fix it" (© Tim Cook, Jonny Ive)

Core i5 2011 21.5" iMac 12,1 2.5 GHz 12GB RAM OS X 10.9.5


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 Post Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:50 am 
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No I wasn't! Too many words get in the way.

It's simple. One partition for one system. One fusion drive for one system. Multiple fusion drives/partitions for multiple systems. You could probably put Windows on there as well, and another one for Linux - I don't know! I would not personally want those things on my computer but there you go.

Recovery Partition plus E drive - you could have it all! The world is your oyster! Put a 4 TB disk in there!

_________________
......................1952
...............Effie Madge Mabel Biddie
...................See them on the beach
......................Or in New York City

.............Tina Louise & Hazel & Mavis
Can you name, name, name, name them all today
Can you name, name, name, name them all today

......................


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 Post Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:02 pm 
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Exhibit A, M'Lud:

Leewave wrote:
:!: PS: If you would prefer to run Sierra from the SSD, just change the commands appropriately before you partition and commit to making the Fusion drive. It would be a lot of faff to change your mind afterwards.


Anyway, I had a word with those awfully nice people at Micromat, who were undecided whether I could add an eDrive to a fusion drive. So I suggested creating its own partition and pointing it there, but they said it would be a waste of space, as creating an eDrive 'splits' the partition it's going to exist on, and Apple's own software dictates it must be 32GB minimum. In the end I said I would just create a bigger Sierra partition while in TDM to accommodate both, but not create the actual eDrive until after I'd installed Mavericks and all my data onto the fusion drive. They seemed to think that would 'probably' work...

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"If it ain't broke, we can fix it" (© Tim Cook, Jonny Ive)

Core i5 2011 21.5" iMac 12,1 2.5 GHz 12GB RAM OS X 10.9.5


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 Post Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:08 pm 
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Why are you asking about adding an e-drive to a fusion drive? What's that got to do with anything? Add it to the hard drive before you make the fusion drive goldurnit! How many times do I have to say the same thing!? Why are you not seeing the wood for the trees?

Okay, it's just a misunderstanding. I was also saying you could choose to run Sierra from the SSD instead of running it from the hard drive. To do that you would repartition the SSD into two with a small partition for Sierra the rest for the fusion. 128 GB is still big enough to handle that, it's not ideal, it would be nicer with a bigger SSD - but you could still do it. Even if you used 50 GB of the SSD for Sierra - you would still have 75 GB or so for the fusion drive wouldn't you? A fusion drive will still work with that much but it would be nice if you had more. You could have more.

You're saying that you need 50 GB for Sierra. I told you my installation of Sierra is 12 GB. You're saying you don't want to do much with Sierra and therefore you probably won't have much data with it. In which case why are you planning to waste 30 GB or so? You could run Sierra from a 25 GB partition quite easily. You can link across to the fusion drive from Sierra to access your data provided the two systems have the same short username.

As opposed to partitioning the hard disk into two which is what we've been discussing so far. We did cover this earlier and you said no you are fine with Sierra on the hard drive.

We did discuss it earlier in the other thread. I was just saying if you want to run Sierra from the SSD you can - but then you would partition the SSD - not the HD! So that you can use part of the SSD for the Mavericks FD! I wasn't saying they both run from the same fusion drive!! :shock:

It's just too many words. I try to be accurate with what I say and I edit things a lot to try to make it make sense, sometimes I fail dramatically. The bottom line is whatever you do it's going to be okay-ish, I'm just trying to give enough information so that you don't have to discover that what you have just spent the last five hours doing is not what you actually really wanted to do, and then having to unmake it all and start again. That has happened to me more than once (Tssk, tssk!), it didn't bother me particularly because once you have set up an installation or a clone or anything else that takes a long time to run, you don't have to spend hours watching the blue progress bar, you can walk away from it and go and do something else for a couple of hours. When you come back it will be done, it's only a matter of time after all. I'm trying to give you the benefit of my experience by perusing possible pitfalls.

Planning is the key. As my flying instructor in Texas one said to me -

:lol: Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance!

I guess what I'm doing is comparing Apples with Orangutans, they don't compare at all, but it's no big deal if you have to fiddle with it a little longer than is strictly necessary, it's all good to do to gain experience with how this stuff fits together. The more you mess about with stuff, the more you learn. I'm always encouraging people to try things and experiment, but there are many people who prefer not to try things and instead can worry too much.


You could partition the SSD into two and also the hard drive into two. You could then make TWO fusion drives - one for Sierra and one for Mavericks! I don't suggest you do that, and I don't think you want to do that, but it is a possibility. Many things are possible given a little thought.

Abbott and Costello

_________________
......................1952
...............Effie Madge Mabel Biddie
...................See them on the beach
......................Or in New York City

.............Tina Louise & Hazel & Mavis
Can you name, name, name, name them all today
Can you name, name, name, name them all today

......................


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 Post Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:50 pm 
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Leewave wrote:
Why are you asking about adding an e-drive to a fusion drive? What's that got to do with anything? Add it to the hard drive before you make the fusion drive goldurnit! How many times do I have to say the same thing!? Why are you not seeing the wood for the trees?

Because TechTool Pro - which creates eDrives - may or may not be able to add such a thing to a fusion drive, for exactly the same reasons as an Apple RP is not added to a fusion installation. So I'm having to create a space for it before doing all the fusion/installing/migrating stuff. Then I'll actually create it after doing all that stuff.

If Sierra can happily run in 25GB (though I might want a few essential apps too - e.g. iTunes 12 to 'talk' to my iPad occasionally?), then I'd need a total partition size of 50GB no more. An eDrive is like a RP on steroids - it has a stripped down OS X, the full TTP software, some Utilities such as Disk Utility and probably all my keychain stuff, maybe even a copy of Safari and one of my Mail accounts too. Basically, I can do repairs on the main drive and still do a few things while booted into it.

And according to Micromat, I can't create the eDrive until I've got all my stuff onto the computer as an eDrive created from one computer might not work on another. It's either that or use a 32GB memory stick, and as both computers are USB2, that's a no-no.

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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:45 pm 
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Ok, the computer has arrived, I've turned it on, it boots quite quick (High Sierra is on the SSD), the mouse and keyboard work, and it linked to my network. Now I've turned it off again ready for the 'critical operation'! So, before linking the two via TDM and wiping the computer's two disks using DU, a few more questions...

1. Will DU on the i5 see BOTH drives on the i7 (presumably "yes", as external disks)?

2. After wiping, I assume I must build the fusion drive FROM the i5 using Terminal on the i5, still connected to the i7 via TDM?

3. I've never installed a Mac OS onto a blank disk before. Presumably I
i. eject the i7 drives, disconnect TDM and power off the i7
ii. connect the external HD with both Sierra and Mavericks to the i7, and when I power it on again with the Option key down, it will 'see' the external HD?
iii. I then install Mavericks 'clean' onto the fusion drive
iv. At the relevant point I connect my Time Machine disk and have it do all that migration stuff, in the meantime using my current i5 as normal.

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"If it ain't broke, we can fix it" (© Tim Cook, Jonny Ive)

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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:54 pm 
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I think I'd put the older one into FWTDM & boot the new one from it to use the older DU & to see all drives connected to the new one.


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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:28 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
I think I'd put the older one into FWTDM & boot the new one from it to use the older DU & to see all drives connected to the new one.

But then, how would I wipe and repartition the drives of the newer one?

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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:32 pm 
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1. yes

2. yes

3. part i - no, just run the installer(s) from the i5 while it is still connected via TDM to the i7, choosing to install onto the blank discs that will show up, one of which is the partition for Sierra that you've made, the other is the Fusion drive you've made.

If you wanted to install a new system onto a blank disk from the i7, you'd first have to boot it into a system because once the disks are erased it will have none - you can do that from a bootable installer. Therefore you'd have to make a bootable installer, and you'd need to put one onto an external drive or a thumb drive - and the easy way to do that is to use Diskmaker X.

_ _ _


To save the hassle making bootable installers for S and M - just do it from the i5 via TDM. They're the same vintage computers, the system will be installed just the same way which ever way you do it.

Alternatively you could just plug-in the i7 to an external drive with a system on it such as a clone or your i5 and boot it into that.

:!: You could put the i5 into TDM and use that to boot the i7 into. Then you could do all of the manipulation directly while looking at the screen of the i7, but booted into the i5 system. Including the partitioning of the internal disks, making the fusion drive and everything else. Whichever way you do it, it will be pretty obvious what you can and cannot do and it's quite logical.

_ _ _


:P :idea: :idea: On second thoughts I would probably do everything from the i7 screen while it is booted into the i5's system by putting the i5 into TDM. That seems a MUCH simpler way to go.

:oops: Which is the way that BD suggested :D


When you start the install off, it should copy a large chunk of installation data directly onto the target disk, then it will reboot - and this time the i7 will reboot into the installer on its own disk and it will complete the installation from there. (I think that's the way it will work, but it will become apparent as you go)

Right at the end of the installation it will ask about setting up a new system using data from somewhere else. In which case reboot the i5 into TDM (in other words now the i7 will be referencing the dumb i5, which will contain all your data). Or I remember that you said you wanted to use your Time Machine backup for that purpose. In which case just plug in the Time Machine disk to the i7 and it should mount it and look at it and you can opt to choose it as the source for the data.

This installation procedure seems a little bit complicated and unusual, and it is, because it is not the way Apple normally design these things to work. But I think just follow your nose and you should be able to get it done without too much difficulty.

At the end of this installation the i7 should restart back into its own newly installed system - and then you'll need to let it run all its housekeeping business and shuffle stuff about - it does an initial spotlight scan and building of its boot caches etc. Open Activity Monitor to see what's going on. When it stops accessing the disk very much and CPU use has dropped to idle and it's finally quiet, then it will be complete. It can take a while before that happens, spotlight indexing does take some time on a complete new System.

Then reboot it once again.

After that it's all pretty much ready to go.


If you're going to stay up all night, (I would!) then good luck, I'm sure it will go well, let us know how it goes and keep us informed! :)

_________________
......................1952
...............Effie Madge Mabel Biddie
...................See them on the beach
......................Or in New York City

.............Tina Louise & Hazel & Mavis
Can you name, name, name, name them all today
Can you name, name, name, name them all today

......................


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