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mac4mac.co.uk • View topic - PIN; money; rant
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 Post subject: PIN; money; rant
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:00 am 
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Spent a fair amount of time yesterday trying to work out a two factor authorisation solution for on-line banking for my Dad.

The bank, let's call them BCHS to preserve their identity and not to embarrass them, sent my 90 year old Dad instructions on how he has to now use two factor authorisation to log onto his account (he's been banking with them for many years with no previous on-line banking issues). The log in involves the account number, security questions and entering a unique 6 digit code generated by a credit card sized key pad each time you log in.

My Dad is a Mac user but his eyesight and hearing is not what it was, naturally, and he simply could not press the keypad to generate a number. Even when using a pencil upside down to press the keys to generate the code he couldn't then read the tiny screen. A 90 year old cannot hold the keypad in their hand, press the buttons and read the output and the darn keypad skitters all over the place if you put it on a hard surface instead. Quite a problem and not resolved (the account number is now in Keychain and the security questions are in a safe place).

So I called the help line. This was also fun. My Dad is reasonably deaf and his hearing aid had broken. The agent had a strongish accent so Dad could neither hear them or understand them at times. What a splendid time I had acting as an intermediary (I'm not allowed to know the security question answers or online access code - in theory).

This on-line security stuff is all very well but it disenfranchises the old and disabled. Dad had previously gone to his local BCHS branch to ask for help - they couldn't make an appointment until end Feb. Too busy. Might be a marketing teams' dream but there needs to be a lot more thought put into access. My Dad later struggled entering his credit card PIN in a shop as the security cover made the keys very hard to see in the poor light. BCHS have not responded to my tweet giving them feedback and asking for a solution.

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 Post subject: Re: PIN; money; rant
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:00 pm 
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I'm in about the same state as your dad... it's crazy to require deaf people to use a phone don't you think?


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 Post subject: Re: PIN; money; rant
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:35 pm 
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I feel your frustration with BCHS, it’s hard enough for this 40-something technologically competent idiot, I can only imagine how hard it is for your dad.

BTW: when I log on to BCHS internet banking after you enter the “IB” number there’s an option to use the keycard and also an option to logon without the keycard. You have to set another passphrase I believe, which I’ve never gone down that route, but would that be easier for your dad rather than using the keycard?

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 Post subject: Re: PIN; money; rant
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:32 am 
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BDAqua - you must find it intensely frustrating. It was near on impossible for my father and without my help he couldn’t have done it. I have power of attorney for his finances but you can’t explain that to a telephone agent.

MacOS10 - that’s very interesting. I know you can log in without the keycard but with view access only. I hadn’t noticed another section. I’ll have a look as that could be an option if it gives full access to my Dad.

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 Post subject: Re: PIN; money; rant
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:06 am 
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One suggestion - Moneysavingexpert's where it appears most people get sensible replies.

Was going to suggest AgeConcern, but learned that they have appointed to run their forum for them. Link goes to Legal and Money section. May have been a good move on AgeConcern's part, since I found their site less than intuitive... but then, it's probably aimed at the carers and not people as old as me... :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: PIN; money; rant
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:24 am 
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Looking at the site right now. Thanks. What technology won’t I be able to use when I’m his age and which will drive my kids bonkers? (Always feel that phrase needs qualifying with ‘if I am spared’).

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 Post subject: Re: PIN; money; rant
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:38 pm 
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To answer the question, any technology that requires; good hearing, eye sight, hand to eye co-ordination at speed and an understanding of how the world really works.

Our phone rings, number withheld, I decide to answer - good move as it’s not Microsoft warning me of a melt down, but a computer message for my hospital appointment.

I’m deaf but hear a voice, ‘If you are - change of voice and tone - Mr name, press 1.

I take the phone from my ear, look at it at arm' length because of eyesight, locate 1 and press - immediately the voice starts long before the phone is at my ear, by then it’s saying, ‘press hash’. Which is? Where’s that? And so forth and so on.

It would make a wonderful TV sketch - shame Fawlty Towers is no longer on.

Aviva sends me an email, my car insurance needs renewing and they’re offering a new deal only £7 more than last year. 'Just Log On and you’ll save £20'.

Rather than spend endless hours on comparison sites, I go to My Account - wonders of wonders, joy of joys - my request last year to remember my details has worked. There in glorious yellow are my username and password (as asterisks). Nothing to do but ‘Log On’.

Error message - either username or password are not correct.

I check my little black book, and enter the correct details.

Same again. Being deaf I use the On-line chat facility - thrilled that I can cope with that.

Shabreen, tells me to try again. The same, she suggests changing my password, I don’t want to change my password etc., there’s no other way Sir. (that's a truncated version)

OK - I’ll go elsewhere. ‘Is there anything else I can help you with today?’ :twisted:

National Rail Enquiries, on-line. Frequently crashes. ‘Oops sorry we have a problem and we are currently trying to fix it’ says the screen, or something like that.

I complain, they can’t understand it, it’s working fine on our computers, well, of course it is, no doubt you have an IT department that spends hours of its time ensuring the computers continue running. Whilst I have an ancient mac …. though I do have access to a nice bunch of people - I bet National Rail have nothing like that.

‘Try deleting all cookies, or emptying the cache’. Why should I do that?. You’ve told me it’s your problem and you’re working on it. Trainline works fine, every single time.

But I’ve solved it. I get in the car, drive to the station and talk to a person. They are such lovely things - people - no really, especially to the old. (the ladies in the Post Office are the same) Patronising maybe, but hey, I get tickets, I get seats next to the luggage rack and with extra room. They do a special print out telling me what train to catch, where’s it going and so on. Bliss.

You will know when you’re past it davesoa, your family will say, ‘No Dad, we’ll drive.’ :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: PIN; money; rant
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:37 pm 
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Nine one Dennis :tu:

I read it after the missus had spent an infuriating morning trying to find her way round a cinema website to book a couple of 'seniors' tickets. We found the site less than intuitive and found ourselves going round in circles. Eventually a call to their 0345 number did get help and she was talked through it. But that should never have been necessary.

Neither of us is a stranger to Macs or websites - we were using Macs on a newspaper in the late 80s (QuarkXpress 2.2...), and OH ended up doing much of the troubleshooting because the freelance IT man lived 110 miles away! She learned a lot since he was happy to give instructions over the phone :)

Like you, my hearing is not good (stereo hearing aids :) ) so when I HAVE to use the phone I use it in speaker mode.

I also just love the businesses that ask how you would like to be contacted and, after you opt for email, phone you anyway! As an afterthought, using the phone on speaker means you can record the conversation on your Mac - nearly as good as email if it comes to a "discussion" on who said what since so often their recordings are "not kept" or "can't be found".

I'm waiting for the opportunity to say: "Don't worry, I'll email you an MP3... " :D

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 Post subject: Re: PIN; money; rant
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:33 pm 
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I’m currently fortunate to be in Japan. Everywhere I go there are bright yellow ‘rumble’ strips to guide those with restricted eyesight on pavements, road crossing bleeps to indicate where it is safe to cross (with the sound varying depending whether it is a north/south or east/west crossing), helpful friendly staff on buses and the railways, designated seats for those needing more assistance and so on. There is an implicit sympathy for those less able for what ever reason. This is a culture that seems to care.

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 Post subject: Re: PIN; money; rant
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:04 am 
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Thanks Highmac, glad you enjoyed it.

Saturday morning appointment at hospital - eye clinic in case you ask - post op cataract. Dr decided I needed another appointment. Taps away at the keyboard, filling in details, “so those out there know what to do”, I assume she meant the receptionist.

Receptionist smiles pleasantly, taps away, thoughtfully explaining she’s not ignoring me, but needs to check everything first. Makes sense. Then.

“Ah, I’m sorry but I can’t get into that part of the system to make an appointment” Dreadfully sorry but gives me a card, with number to ring.

The technology means a doctor can enter details for my next appointment, the receptionist can read those details, but the system doesn’t allow her access to what must be the simplest bit.

Could be, i suppose, that if Jeremy Hunk believes NHS doesn’t work at the weekend, parts of the system don’t either.

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